Okay I think I have the class cycle figured out:
- Saturday – almost always ground
- Monday – 70% kickboxing type stuff and 30% ground (often a recap of Saturday)
- Wed. – Mook Jong and application
Teacher took pity on me and threw me a bone. Due to being out briefly thanks to Mr. Neck, part due to my crazy work schedule, and part due to just not being able to make Saturdays, Teacher changed his plans and had folks work on ground stuff again this past Monday.
FINALLY I got introduced to the guard!
Lessons learned or observations in no particular order:
- You don’t want to be there too long on the street (teacher used boot stomp example from second attacker again)
- If you can’t escape play it like a ground fight BUT fight dirty (e.g. pokes, gouges, and even bites)
- You can contract your hips to bring the attacker in close where it’s hard to punch
- You can expand to make it hard for attacker to hit your face
- You can grab the head at take down to keep attacker close – from here it’s hard to punch for attacker.
- With head close (however you manage that) teacher promotes a thumb to the eye (dire straits only!)
- All of this was practiced from an attacker using a double leg take down (i.e. goal was to also practice that move too)
- Some of the advanced guys (I think two or three are in the BJJ class) were doing some nifty hip throws!
- We did not practice submissions or escapes from the guard – just focused on expanding on contracting
- We also worked mostly a closed guard
Point #9 is my fault. I’m the newest so my mere presence is forcing the beginning group to review all basic material for my benefit. One of the biggest lessons for me was the fact that you can extend your hips or contract them to control how you are being punched. I did not know this.
The other lesson relates to mass. In the newbie group we have one guy who is an easy 240 or 250. All I can say is that when he was on top of me I was hosed. Yes, yes, we got the whole “Royce Gracie used BJJ to beat guys that outweighed him by 70lbs” speech. The problems are these:
- This is not BJJ class
- Most in the self-defense class could not carry Royce’s jock strap! (most of the guys from the BJJ class probably could not either)
- Most in the self-defense class are not in Gracie’s league (think a good state college team with average athletes vs. Michael Jordan)
In fact, being on my back was as uncomfortable and as lost as I’ve felt in years. At least in Kung Fu and Chin Na I had some similar reference points! Being on your back is a totally different game. I also felt all of my 40-plus years being down there. It amazes me that Ed O’Neil was able to get his black belt in BJJ at his age. I now have new respect for him!
Anyhow, here’s a video that is as basic as I could find. Most that I found focused on UFC-type submissions from the guard. That was not this class!
-BCP
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Interesting! Your comment on BJJ made me go Wikipedia it. Looks like I need to add “groundfighting” to my “To Do” list.
–GG
My own sensei is that big. We don’t to BJJ exactly, but we do mat work, and he has definitely sat on me. Part of why you feel so hosed, Bob, is because of your unfamiliarity. While it’s good strategy to stay out from underneath the big guy, there’s stuff you can do even when you are there.
Hi Jay,
Yeah maybe I’ll make it to the point where I did in stand-up. By the time I made it to kung fu I had sparred in boxing and tae kwon do. We had a guy I called Mack Truck: an easy 300 of blub with muscle under.
I have no doubt that unless I got very lucky, in a real confrontation he would destroy me. However, I did learn to manage him for a time.
That’s six – ten years of stand-up vs. 1 month of ground!
I do think that BJJ can give you skills to deal with a bigger guy. Though I think the Gracie factor is overblown – some has to do with the fact that in his prime, he was a Michael Jordan.
-B
Gye,
It’s good to know even a little. This is not a ground art per se but we do sample it as part of self-defense.
I’ve only been training for a couple of years, but have realized that if you are on your back, and there is someone who clearly outweighs you in full guard or side guard, you are most likely SOL.
Best available defenses usually involve crossing your arms in front of you, grabbing his collar and trying to choke him out, while keeping your elbows up and away from your body as some sort of protection against any punches.
Other techniques correctly were summarized by the Emperor Joseph II in “Amadeus:” “There are too many notes.” In an emergency, I’d prefer to have one or two efficient techniques, than a whole slew of techniques such as: first push his neck away from you, then bring your knee up to create additional space, then throw your other leg over his head, then flex hips and legs to get him off of you and finish with an arm bar.
All bottles are good, that’s just my preference.
“In an emergency, I’d prefer to have one or two efficient techniques…”
That’s esp the goal of Teacher’s self-defense material — part because it’s his weakest link. He’s a stand-up guy with limited ground exp.
Den –
The longer I do this the more I’m put into situations where, were they real, I’d probably be hosed.
I think there is a good lesson in that, too. Wim Demeere often says that in a real situation, his training just gives him in edge and that’s about it. I think I am starting to understand that notion.
I agree whole heartedly. It seems to me that the most efficient techniques should come as close to being a reflex as possible.
The more I think about it and the principle that karate is rooted in self-defense, you have to assume a couple of things:
1. The attacker likely has adrenalin coursing through their body, after all their fight reaction has been triggered as soon will be made evident. Heart is beating fast, rate of respiration is increasing.
2. The defender can be aware of the potential for an attack, but is at a lower energy state vis a vis heart rate and breathing.
3. The defender is typically in a reactive position (although there is a school of thought that is the exception in that the best defense sometimes is a good offense). Accordingly, any response to the attack has to be quick and efficient, i.e. nearly a reflex.
From these principles, I can only deduce that complex techniques and submissions are not going to be effective in the immediate response to an attack.
Den,
I’m pretty certain that there is research to support your observation. I also remember this from my long gone DOC days. If I ever meet teacher’s main BJJ instructor I will ask. I heard people say he’s a cop.
Just remember what the instructor said.Fight dirty.
Coolman -
Trust me: I followed that advice long before this instructor.
I have been training BJJ for about 3 years, which is nothing in the big picture, I am 38. To this day I hate the guard and still feel uncomfortable in it.
But I continue to train it, every class and every chance I get.
Training BJJ,
Thanks for stopping and by! I agree: being on my back does not feel good but there are lessons to be learned.