OK, I’ve been having fun with this one. While researching all-things Seagal I happened upon this video:
Man oh man but how much would you pay to have been at that party! Here’s the story:
“At a party in my home in Miami in 1997, Van Damme was tired of Seagal claiming he could kick his ass so he offered Seagal outside into my back yard,” Contactmusic quoted him [Stallone] as saying.
“Van Damme was too strong. Seagal wanted none of it,” Stallone said. (ANI)
Steven Seagal:
- 7th dan in Aikido; also studied Shito-ryu karate
- Never fought professionally
Jean-Claude Van Damme:
- Shotokan karate
- Muay Thai
- Kick boxing
- Taekwondo
- Retired from fighting with an 18 – 1 record
Given that Steven Seagal thinks he’s a clairvoyant god, perhaps he foresaw his own butt getting kicked and decided to back down?
-BCP
Your having too much fun with this Bob!
While tongue in cheek and fun oriented this post does raise an interesting point concerning VD’s fight record.
Is this what made the difference and scared Segal away. And if so, doesn’t this mean that some kind of fighting experience is desirable?
Jon -
Well I was serious about wishing I could have been there! But you’re also right and I almost thought about a blog post on that. I’m pretty certain some of the regulars have already covered it.
I’m sure VD’s fight record played a part. However, Seagal’s personality may be a part of this too. At one point he was a very skilled martial artist. From what I’ve seen and read about him he reminds me an awful lot of the proverbial school yard bully. Pushes people around a shoots his mouth off until a bigger dog comes along.
Also, I wonder if this happened before or after his match with Judo Gene LeBell? It’s alleged that Mr. LeBell choked him out — twice! — after Seagal cocked off. So if it was after maybe Seagal didn’t want to crap his pants at Stallone’s party?
-B
I just wanted to clear up the Gene Lebelle issue, I have heard him talk ( live )regarding this incident ( I am a MM artist). What Seagal was infact claiming was that his Ki was high enough to prevent him from passing out from any choke/guillotine… A very stupid idea on his part, no-one on earth can do this. Lebelle is quick to tell anyone that he would never have been able to actually put Seagal in this hold if he actually defended himself. Seagals arrogant statement was that he would let Lebelle voluntarily choke him to show how impervious he was to the exercise.
From what Ive seen of Seagals early martial arts career, he was a seriously capable and lethal practitioner, he could disarm someone violently swirling a knife ( put them into kote-gashi + a reverse guillotine) frighteningly easily. If he really was that proficient at avoiding strikes/stab attempts, he would be devastingly effective against any standup fighter. Half the issue with BJJ/Aikido/Jui-jitsu is centred around having the speed to anticipate an opponents moves , react to them quickly enough so as to be able to submit/disarm them… once youve masterd that reactive ability, Standup fighting becomes just about redundant against you ( except for when you are in a multiple attacker situation, where grappling one person will lead to others kicking you whilst on the ground)… this type of reactive perfection comes merely from repitition of multiple scenarios both structured and unstructuered.
My instructors both past and present have met and seen Seagal in action – a previous instructor of mine who is an mma specialist and a 5th degree black belt in Wushu, said , and I quote ” The guy is the most arrogant prick Ive met, hes hair piece is as laughable as his gut, but god the man is good at his form”
On a serious note, it’s just too bad that the philosophy that usually accompanies aikido did not have a more positive effect on Mr. Seagal.
God knows that in the how ever many years I’ve been blogging I’ve not disparaged his martial arts skill from the early years (recently he’s let himself go to hell IMO). However, somewhere along the way he took a turn onto ludicrous lane and has never been able to get off!
Since Bruce Lee is dead, he is out of the picture now… But, his art lives on. However, we are not comparing arts, but the practitioners.
Jet Li is a very fluid fighter, and has learned and practices many forms. In this regard he is like Jackie Chan. Both are well endowed fighters, and very talented. Do, however, note there is no record (to my knowledge) of either fighting outside of acting. So, their skills have only been tested in front of the camera.
Steven Segal, on the other hand, has been tested outside of acting. When he was in Japan, and when he took over his father in-law’s dojo, he did have to ‘prove’ himself multiple times.
This would be similar to Bruce Lee; when Bruce Lee started a martial arts school in the States, he would have to contend others in order to have the ‘right’ to teach un-Chinese.
Steven Segal, was the first non-Japanese to head a dojo in Japan, and doing so brought unwanted attention his way. Many times he had to ‘prove’ he was ‘worthy’, and therefore… I believe Steven Segal would be the ultimate fighter of the ones listed above.
Now, if Bruce Lee were still alive… We would have a debate. And, before you vie that Chuck Norris and others have fought outside of acting… These fighters fought in competition settings, not street fights (where it truly matters).
JC
JC –
Thanks for your input! Ah the infamous “which action star could beat up another action star” question!
Anyone who has studied martial arts knows how bogus these sorts of discussions are. Seagal is very arrogant about his abilities, that’s fo sho (as modern day Seagal would say it. He is no joke. Ring experience doesn’t necessarily translate to the street, and although all martial arts actors are cool, Seagal is the man folks. He has proven himself in numerous ways, and there are many valid folks out there that would tell you that Seagal can, and has controlled the toughest of men using only one hand. Van Damme was a cool dude in his day, but I find it hilarious to imagine him trying to do a jump spinning roundhouse on a massive, gritty guy like Seagal is a buddist, and arrogant or not he can kick ass. You can find millions of `true` martial artist who give Seagal loads of respect. You won`t find any of those same guys saying the same about Van Damme, or even Chuck Norris – there skills just don`t translate to actual fighting like Seagal`s skills. He can and has done everything you see in his movies – HE`S NO JOKE! Bruce Lee was amazing, but seriously. Seagal is a mountain of a man, who knows how to use your momentum against you, and has been doing it for forty years. The video of Van Damme trash talking Seagal, and Stallone`s involvement is just a joke.
Seagal is the man, and that`s what real martial artists, and law enforcement officers all over the country know. All other opinions are silly “I like so and so`s movies better“ opinions, and they are an insult to real life, practical martial arts.
Just to add to my previous statement. ..I loved Bruce Lee, but the fights he had to undertake to prove himself were against other traditional kung fu guys who fought the traditional kung fu style. To imply he could have taken on a 6`5 250 pound man, who can move as fast as a man half his size is just ridiculous.
If I seem like a fan, I am. But more importantly I`m a realist.
Hi and thanks for the feedback. Since we are being “realistic” let me draw your attention to this – Seagal’s Lawman and his alleged street experience are bogus. Don’t believe me? Then check out this recent story on the Lord of Pasta.
As for which Hollywood martial arts movie star is tougher than my cat, well, I’ll leave that debate for those of you who like to tilt at windmills.
-B
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ok, won’t go into the lovely discussion abt who’s the best but love this post… lol
Yeah, sometimes you can’t make this stuff up!
well Segal makes it almost too easy
bob, that “recent story” proves nothing . That article was biased and based on assumption. They cannot fake his credentials. They could get in very big trouble with the state/federal gov. for allowing someone without the proper training to actually assist them in police duty.
People that want to hate seagal are going to hate him no matter what, and people that like him are going to like him. This argument is so old.
Yes, I agree that seagal is an arrogant asshole. His movies are repetitive. Maybe he takes himself too serious,, obviously thats just his personality.
As for his skill level, who knows. though it seems he would try to defend his reputation against people like van damme, I don’t think he has the fight in him. and if he did kick van damme’s ass, whos record of 18-1 is from point sparring, People would still hate him because he would be seen as a big bully.
Problem is he projected himself with this big tough guy image and when people started dumping on him, he didn’t do much to defend his reputation.
Anyway, I would like to see Seagal do at least one movie based on martial arts fighting, his training,with history/traditions.
I think he went wrong in his career doing the same movie script over and over, (cop/action /drama crap.)
All in all, no matter if you hate him or not, The guy had balls. He took his opportunity to do what he wanted to do in life and succeeded. Went to japan by himself, spoke no japanese, and made a life there, came back and made a semi-successful movie career.
Thats more than I can say for alot of people.
Me –
Thanks for dropping by and leaving a few comments. To be clear – I don’t hate Seagal. In fact I’ve addressed that in this post.
I also have never criticized what he has accomplished in the martial arts. I have, however, criticized the very apparent fact that he’s strayed far from the teachings of Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of aikido. For that matter the Dalai Lama has also criticized Seagal–a self-professed Buddhist–for the image he portrays in the movies.
I will take issue with one comment you made:
In the December 2 issue of the Los Angeles Times, law enforcement reporter Scott Glover authored a lengthy piece about Steven Seagal’s Lawman. Mr. Glover’s research reveals that, among other things, Seagal is probably not a certified law enforcement officer and his rank for the Jefferson Parish Sheriff’s Office is nothing more than honorary.
So, if you have issues with those allegations then perhaps you should write Mr. Glover?
-B
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Iv’e heard that story on the lot many times, i work here in Hollywood at Paramount,about the night of Stallones party and how Van damme called him out. what they fell to mention is he was surronded by body guards and Van Damme is a bigger jerk than he is. I can tell you that on the set of a un named film that SS was on in Alaska, which i was there. Two local karate instructors came to a party and tried to pick a fight with SS over and over again until he finally we all went out to the parking lot were SS and his big pot belly moved faster and with such overwelming devastion ive never seen. Both assholes were sent to the hospital and payed to keep it out of the papers. Must say he is kinda of a jerk but he does give to Saint Judes and it must get old having to mess people up to prove you can.
Ah, Hollywood. Is there nothing movie stars can’t solve?
Anyhow, thanks for weighing in.
Seagal would kick VCVD’s butt up and down the street, no contest
Action fan,
Perhaps. I do know this much: Seagal would beat JCVD in a pie eating contest.
JCVD would lose if Seagal fell on him. However, JCVD could use a cheeseburger as a distraction and then knock him out!
LOL
It must be remembered that Aikido is purely defense. The other martial arts including boxing and grappling are both offense and defense. By being able to concentrate only on defense, mentally this gives the Aikido fighter an advantage over other types of martial arts. Seagal, even though now he is way over weight, still likely can handle most martial art fighters since he has mastered the moves and Aikido takes little movement to act. I studied both Kung Fu and Aikido. Kung Fu was fun but in a street fight I will stick to the Aikido. The ring is something entirely different since there are no weapons and the point is to attack and win the fight. Aikido would not be practical in the ring. All of us who have studied martial arts must remember that none of them are any defense against a gun no matter how good or fast you are.
Just to clarify guys as most of you posted many urban legends here which are pretty laughable:
- Jet Li is holds several wushu championships fighting tournaments in China,
- noone would break any law for letting Seagal having any police/army etc title. All position he claims to have are in his state free for anyone who like to volountary. At the moment he isn’t a deputy sheriff, he is a volountary deputy sheriff and there can be several ones. It is free for every citizen just like a ride along with a police officer.
- 90 out of 100 black belt holders don’t have combat skills or combat records so you can’t really say he was tested. Many people in Japan question him there claiming that it is another of his stories he tells in Hollywood.
- he calls himself a Buddhist but almost everything he says and how he looks contradicts being a Buddhist.
Van Damme might be brawler but I can believe he is stupid enough to go for it while I can see Seagal backing out an uncontrolled situation. It is different in Aikido to defeat a guy attacking with a knife as an excersize and different to defeat a who you don’t know what he can do to you. Seagal is a master of the excersize and that is it. I have several friends black belts who crap their pants everytime it gets rough.
- Van Damme approached and lost to Chuck Zito being totally drunk before so it isn’t like he was locked to win. He didn’t fear the fight, Seagal did and Sly confirmed that.
The whole story goes that Van Damme left the party and followed Seagal approaching him several times and Seagal said no each time.
- In his reality show a bullish driver shows a finger to Van Damme’ car and Van Damme chases him to fight. Maybe he isn’t a great artist but he has no fear.
- Steven Seagal chickened out to Chuck Norris before after Seagal called all Bruce Lee students lame. Norris not only is a world champion in Karate but also has black belts in other styles which isn’t widely reported.
Van Damme worked for Norris and worked out with Norris when he was young and and many of Norris’ crew confirmed that Van Damme is legit. Besides, his combat record confirms that. The guy was a KO winner in semi-contact fights so he goes for it. It doesn’t meant that he would have won but for the poster who thinks he would throw high kicks – please stop watching movies. Have you seen K1? K1 is a full contact Kyokushin Karate mixed with Kickboxing. It is a very hard full contact sport while Seagal wins excerises which are fully scripted.
To Mike Burr: another urban legend from a fan. Seagal was alone but Van Damme had bodyguards? Seagal, a million dollar guy who anyone can sue for body damage. Buddhist practitioner and Aikido master fought a civilian for real? You watch too much Lawman my friend. A fight you have never seen and noone heard about it? I can believe he showed them controlled tricks they never saw before because he no doubt knows them and he does it each time. But you let your imagination go a bit overboard.
Second fact is the Van Damme has worse relation with Stallone than Seagal so if Stallone would take sides I bet he would loved if Seagal actually fought and defeated JCVD instead of running away
My last post:
When Bruce Lee got a walk of fame star Lee friends, family, Chuck Norris and JCVD celebrated together. I honestly can’t see Steven who I rate for amazing technique standing in full contact fight against a Kyokushin fighter that heavy starting the fight with a few hundred pounds low kick.
As Martial Art as art, excersize, accuracy etc Steven wins anyday. Combat I take 90 per cent of any type of combat fighters over him anyday.
@bell. You lie about Lebell talking that he would never get in that position. You read it and Lebell never confirmed that. Lebell when got older actually said that Seagal told him that he would get sued if he critiques him in media or when anyone else who saw that excisize would go to media. In the paper article Lebell only said that it was an excersize and didn’t laugh at Seagal but he never praised him as you lie here. In his older days there is many jokes from people meeting Gene that he also said Seagal peed himself. Bas Rutten tells it every single time while being ask about that. Not mentioning the fact that while Steven trained with MMA fighters he exaggerated it to the level that he claimed that he invented a frontal kick to the head which 5yrs old child comes up with no teaching.
It is my respected view that all of the above mentioned fighters are dominant within their fields and weak within others. However we must not be fooled by size and animosity when comparing artistist approach and power……..Power can virtually be on top based on what is the challenge but mind u art is just or even rated higher in some books…..With this I belive Segal is a better fighter over all mainly because of his casual approach and long concentration in brain storming his opponent. Thank you
@Ganesh: that is what I am saying. We don’t know if Seagal is a fighter at all. 5 Dan Aikido is an excersize test supported by a choreographed fight. Same for all black belts. I am/was a martial artist practitioner and fought, also kickboxed. As a best example is the poster making up claims about Gene Lebell to make Steven look like a combat fighter. Lebell is am American judo legend, one of the first MMA fighters. He fought a pro Boxer in MMA contest allowing kicks and choked him out. He was also heavier and bigger in his prime than Seagal. For anyone who calls himslef martial artist and claim that Lebell admitted Seagal’ supperioty is a joke. I came across many stunt guys claiming to be shown stuff by Steven. It all happened in situations like f.e Seagal would ask you to attack him with a kick or try to choke him. He precisely knew what you were doing so the defense was very simple. Every story concerning Seagal showing his skills ends up with someone saying that he showed amazing technique in a simple excersize but noone beliving that he could fight an unpredictable fighter, specially presenting style Seagal doesn’t know.
Bob Patterson,
I did a research based blog on Seagal v. Van Damme. I was non-biased (although really hard). If you would like to read it, let me know.
~D
please, JCVD is still a tank compared to seagal… not even worth writing a paragraph, but JCVD will knock out seagal easily
Just look at the training , Seagal has many years training and practice in an art form that is the most dangerous and precise in all Japanese forms. His attitude, and acting aside, Steven Seagal earned his reputation as a Martial Artist in a country not his own , he fought his way to the top of that form as well being an outsider. He runs his own schools in Japan and California. His form is excellent , physically he is out of shape but that in no way impedes his abilities to lethally devastate an oponent using their own force against them. That is what Akido does it deftly deflects and redistributes energy in motion and at rest. It is a philosophy and way that incorporates physics and choreographed manuevers to disarm an opponents energy and force away and back upon them. Seagal is very good at this and very quick . Van Damme’s training is modest and for show in a fight he would lose even to an experienced MMA , Karate or Wushu Practitioner of lower status than Seagal’s. But if we want to entertain the idea of who would overcome in such a match , it is clear to me and the world that Van Damme would at best find himself humiliated and defeated very quickly.
I believe Seagal could beat JCVD in a pie eating contest. Therefore my money is on him!
I assure Seagull is no God. For there is but one and it ain’t him
Pastor Steve Winter
Steve: Mr. Seagal is a hero in his own mind.
Everybody is a “Black Belt” on the internet. Segal even fat would beat jcvd.
No holds barred or a match with sport kickboxing rules? Given Seagal’s shape now my money is on JCVD. 20 years ago maybe different.
In response to the comment left by the person using the screen name “me” reading:
“and if he did kick van damme’s ass, whos record of 18-1 is from point sparring, People would still hate him because he would be seen as a big bully.”
Point fighting isn’t sparring. The word “sparring” in martial arts is used strictly to refer to practice and doesn’t have any effect on your professional record. In actual point fighting competitions, Van Damme has a pretty impressive record of 44-4. The record of 18-1 mentioned in the article above is from full contact kickboxing and all 18 wins were by KO.
Steven wouldn’t be seen as a bully if he could actually beat a real fighter like Jean-Claude. He might, however, be seen as less of a fraud and coward. The fact is, he’s already a bully who picks on people way smaller than him. John Leguizamo, 5’8 and skinny as a rail, tells a story of how the 6’5 Seagal assaulted him on the set of a movie they were filming together. He ran away from Van Damme not because he was afraid of coming off as a bully but because he knew Van Damme was ready and able to fight back. Textbook bully.
@ Tez, Yeah we can believe what a smart ass “comedic” actor says. The dude doesn’t even know the difference between a “Lt. Colonel” and a fucking Master Sgt…. Oh yeah I am sure John was totally telling the truth about the situation.
Seagal’s rep for being a dick is legendary.
“Steven Seagal , who hosted on April 20, 1991, was also banned from hosting because of his difficulty in working with the cast and crew.”
http://www.zimbio.com/Infamous+moments+in+Saturday+Night+Live+history/notes/1
See also: http://blogcritics.org/video/article/steven-seagal-lawman-a-look-back/
Oh so it is know that he is a “dick” and a 7th dan in Aikido…. And Johnny laughed in his face…. Not a smart move on his part…. It’s like teasing a pitpull and being shocked when it bites.
*known
*shug* 7th dan or not Seagal-san made his own bed. This is why he’s stuck with a direct-to-DVD movie career & shitty reality TV.
And this has what exactly to do with SS skill set in Aikido? Is he an A$$hole? Yes…. But so is JCVD and JC is nowhere near the skill level SS is…. So nice try with the post but how about you come back to reality Bob.
CM: re-read my post and all the comments. You’ll see my opinion of Seagal’s skill.
beautiful thing about Aikido is that it is not physical based ie it is designed around internal strength & energy redirection so it is a martial art that you can use until you are old & creaking. You can be as fat as Seagal or thin like kate moss, and you can still do Aikido. SS being fat with have little impact on how devastating his skills will be on an opponent.
And looking at how many lard asses there are in America (and growing everyday), Aikido should be the perfect martial art in that country.
And thus a new Aikido marketing strategy is born.
“Aikido: It’s great for fatties!”
It’s simple really… in a ring fight, JCVD would probably have the edge. In a street fight Seagull would win. JCVD’s acting career is based on being able to do the splits and bieng “cute” to women; Segal’s is based on loads of philosophical bullshit, despite being an excellent ecponent of aikido. It’s all rather irrelevant now though, as they’re both getting on a bit.
When all said and done, they’ve both had good careers with some good films and some rubbish, and they could both kick the ass of all of us posting on here!
Fred: in all the years I’ve blogged your comment may be the best ever.
I was a fan of both of their movies during their time. I believe both men have the personality of a monkey’s butt. You can say what you want about their personality- it has nothing to do with their ability to fight. Bringing up the fight with Zito- JCVD was not only drunk but it was also on drugs still at the time. He had not been working out or practicing. He wasnt even eating right. I have to pick JCVD though.
Yeah, I can’t argue with that Pammy.
Such bullshit Stallone and vandam would get broken, van dam is nothing more then a gymnast and Stallone is his little bitch, being a 7th Dan he would only protect himself dumbasses , that’s what martial arts is about! True masters don’t start shit , they finish it, so is van dam a master ? No or he wouldn’t try to start a fight he would die in, he is an idiot! To chalange Steven segal in battle would be tragic for half of the planet , van Dam is not a formidable change for segal. Anyone who would believe this is no more then a child attracted to van dam like everyone was ( in his movies) , I loved him in his movies , but fear for him in that battle, segals movies were good but always lacked something , so movies, winner van dam, real combat winner segal ! Period .
Ladies! Steven Seagal would win if he 1) Fell on JC, 2) Thought JC was a pizza and ate him, or 3) Learned martial arts from Master Wong.
Now give me 20 front squats!!!!!!
Master Wong martial arts rules the world!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Master Wong Dong: What have I done to deserve this???
In response to Mr Carter- Segal is supposed to be just about self defense and I am all for that. The reason Stallone set it up for them to meet was because he was tired of hearing about it. It was Seagal who kept talking s***, even in an interview on TV. So if he is all about self defense- why did he that he could kick his a** then back down? Why did he even start anything? It was Segal who started it- Van Damme was defending his pride- which I’m not saying I agree with. But if he was going to say it in the first place- why didnt he let Van Damme start and he defend himself and his words?
Seagal is chicken man. He take Master Wong lessons and then have courage to fight JC Van Damme! Man up Seagal! Lots of front squats for you!!!!!!!!!
i was going to say that the first video does not work and ask if you could replace it with a working one. but i changed my way half way through the posts. they started interestingly but became cheesy very fast. the second video was funny though
sorry, it should be “half way through the comments”, not “posts”
It’s funny how os many of you say JCVD is a “jerk” blah blah blah, yet I found this clip of him talking about the Expendables 2 & he actually wanted to see Seagal join the cast for a 3rd Expendables if there is one, he even mentioned that he still thinks Seagal would be good, even though Seagal talked shit about him. But JCVD is the “dick”?!? Okay Seagal NUT HUGGERS!!!
http://screenrant.com/expendables-2-3-jean-claude-van-damme-interview/
P.S If you think JCVD is a “joke” google or go to youtube & find the clip where he trains with GSP & see how fast, flexible & sick his kicks are, even for a 50+ yr old man.
Also, he was 18-1 with 18 KO’s & in his Amateur career, he was 44-4, how many “real” fights did Seagal have, professional or amateur?!? Thats what I thought!!! Do some research b4 you comment nut huggers.
I have to approve this post just on the gratuitous use of the word “nut huggers”.
LOL – Thanks BOB!
violence and ego is not the way. No one wins in a fight.
“My” Top 10 list of Reality Martial Artists (Also in Films)
1. Bruce Lee
2. jet Li
3. Donnie Yen
4. Sammo Hung
5. Bill Yuen
6. Tony Jaa
7. Michael Jai White
8. Steven Seagal
9. Jean Claude Van Damme
10. Iko Uwais
Why no chuck